Current meta

Nov 7, 2018
56
37
#1
Hey y'all! :)

After playing on the server for the last week, I just wanted to share some of my opinions on the new changes. Keep in mind these are my opinions,
but I still think these changes would make the server a lot more fun to play, specially for new players who wants a fair ground to play on.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not here to complain in any way, or pointing fingers on anyone on the admin/dev team - because we have been waiting for changes for a long time.
I just think some of the new changes needs to be worked on. The main change in my opinion on the server is base raiding, now with hotwires, which changes the pace of the epoch-mod
completely. I like the changes, considering not all the clans are autistic enough (except Valhalla, ez-clans?) to crack 15-20 doors. Makes it alot
more fair!

The current problem in my opinion is that the drop rate on hotwire kits and WHERE it drops is just not balanced at all. And yes, it will always be hard to
balance, because most of the server is pretty casual and only has maybe 1-2 drawbridges, while others have 20. Anyways, you can't make the drop rate
in a way that makes it impossible to raid those with x amount of drawbridges - cus these are the players with the most loot, that would just make the
game boring and raiding not worth it all.

Let's make an example. Let's say a guy has 20 drawbridges. After those bridges he has 6 safes where all the loot is split.

20% of opening a door. So if you are really lucky you have to use 100 kits only to get to the safes. Then you gotta use another 50-60 kits to open these.
= makes it around 150 kits to raid the big boys on the server, if you have the luck on your side. With the loot we have gotten on skalisty the last
week that is 150 runs on skalisty (we've been super unlucky? we already sent pictures of the loot to Unath)

The current meta on the server is solely doing treasure hunts. Big clans with 2-3 venoms flies around the map, and are getting most of them. How is that
fun? The skalisty rework has become really nice, and I think most of the players were looking forward to some fun PvP action on skalisty (atleast our clan
was). Sadly at this point, the easiest mission on the game is just better to do (time * loot). So with the current meta its not even worth doing skalisty
at this point.

My opions how to make the meta more fun again:
- Make skalisty loot waaay better (to pace up the game - let it drop 5-10 hotwires, should drop more than all treasure hunt missions does combined in 1 restart)
-> if these changes are being done some dev has to be done (I would love to help!):
- not possible to skip EMP-zone with mozzie (just makes it impossible to people without mozzie-spawn)
- remove script where you can't log off with gear and spawn at balota: yes, might unfair in rare cases where people actually are having
connection problems with the loot - still have to look at the bigger picture in my opinion. Usually the problem isn't clearing the AI's,
it's getting out with the loot. With this script it kills alot of the action. Make a combat-log script for people with skalisty loot?
- some of these places where you can climb on the stone around castle (prob. even more areas other than those I showed Merlijn).

- Not sure how drop-chance on kits are on red missions, but maybe increase drop chance for 1 kit?
- Increase drop rate on kits on UN-outpost and hippie -> more PvP at these areas too!
- Remove hotwire-kit drops from treasure hunts (just not fair at this point, too much RNG/big venom groups).

So why should the pace be increased? one of the main reasons are that big clans have 10+ bases. Yes, it's IMPOSSIBLE for you admins to follow up on:
"Only 2 bases per group". So then there should be a way to get all of them.

Just some of thoughts after a week on your server, since I think the meta is just boring right now.

Would love to hear what you think about this!
- Valhalla juniorn

=========================================================================================================================

From @george hamnond

With the new update alot of problems have showed up. This thread is to bring these to light so they can be fixed.

Vehicles not spawning correctly at certain traders.
Loot needs to be reworked as skalisty loot seems unworthy for the effort it takes to clear compared to other methods of getting high end loot.
Removing object does not work when placed down in the same session. Relog is needed to be able to deconstruct.
A issue with loading putting people in debug often and most of those start killing leading to gear loss for alot of players.
Prices need to be redone for most armed vehicles as the balance is completely off. Same goes for storage prices.
Prevent logging out at skalisty with gear.
Fix ai path for convoy and remove object in ai path at skalisty.
Add back rubie spawn, teleport and HC to dev server so people can test things and give feedback.
Add a command to ping admins ingame such as !admin or !help.
Add a script to prevent storage sheds and simular object being placed inside the ground. This is already in for safes but can still be worked around. (picture was send to jimmy)
Change tank dealer layout to prevent camping from long range.
Bases don't load as they used to causing people to be able to shoot players without it rendering the walls and in some cases being able to land inside the base before it renders.
Pressing esc while on a boat ejects you.

Pretty sure there are more problems out there so please do share them.
 
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Goose

Epoch Admin
Admin
Developer
Jul 30, 2019
550
361
#2
I completely agree.
IMO, hotwires should have a medium-low chance of spawning in something like bomb crate. Perhaps something else worthwhile like a ruby maybe?
I say increase spawn rate of hotwires on skalisty and/or make the loot on skalisty more fair as the loot from a lot of runs ive done to skalisty have been dire to say the least.

As for the logging out on skalisty, the current setup makes it oh so easy to escape the island. You can just alt F4, wait for restart, then log in at balota and grab an unlocked heli/run away.
I would say implement either one of these if someone logs out on skalisty:
1 - wipe player gear and TP them to shore
2 - announce that a player has logged out on skalisty, and make it against the rules to do so - with the announcement players report people who do this
3 - spawn a box of all their loot where they log out on the island and TP them to the shore when they log back in.

As OP said, the bigger picture needs to be considered. Its just unlucky if you lose connection on the island. And from the options i listed above, i believe that option 3 is the best.

Regards, Goose
 

Unath

Epoch Manager
Manager
Dec 10, 2018
704
428
#3
Hi,

Thank you very much for the detailed post and observations, here are some notes that I would like to point out to also clarify:

-There are plans for a brand new spawnable item that would be purposely made for hotwiring doors, this way we can make this one way more frequent than what it is today and still keep the safe hotwires a tad more rare. This would balance the whole base raiding aspect.

-We are aware of the loot situation on both skalisty and stuff like higher end missions and even bombcrates, this will be reworked. I've been getting pictures as you mentioned yourself in the post.

-Logging off with loot on skalisty and other military places could def been re-worked and have been talked about internally. There are many mitigations that can be done for this, but needs to be finalized.

-The stones you can climb on and through is also known to us, we'll see what we can do about that.

-Skipping across with mozzie should be fixed shortly with a script, making it fair again for people who does not spawn with it.

Hope you post more of these, feedback like this is very valuable to the staff that get less player experience than frequent players. :)
 

Goose

Epoch Admin
Admin
Developer
Jul 30, 2019
550
361
#4
@eah
Mind if i move this to general discussions for everyone to see? Or would you rather keep it here?
 
Aug 30, 2018
170
74
#6
The current meta on the server is solely doing treasure hunts. Big clans with 2-3 venoms flies around the map, and are getting most of them. How is that
fun? The skalisty rework has become really nice, and I think most of the players were looking forward to some fun PvP action on skalisty (atleast our clan
was). Sadly at this point, the easiest mission on the game is just better to do (time * loot). So with the current meta its not even worth doing skalisty
at this point.
Tresure hunt is fixed it spawns up to 1 hotwire now...
Skalisty is new so there is a lot of new stuff to explore and maybe we can get crateive and make it done faster then we doing it now...
Loot on skalisty needs to be less random...(hotwires spawn like 2 or 3 every time) and still think 5 max is good ...
UN and Hippy needs to spawn like up to 2 hotwires...


Good Post
 

George Hamnond

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
187
104
#9
Treasure hunt was done yesterday and it had 2 hotwires in it. I personaly think skalisty should spawn 5-10 hotwires, atleast 100 briefs and more building suplies (cinder objects,metal floors and perhaps h-cubes). The amount of hotwires sounds like alot but keep in mind you can get the frequently from convoys, missions and treasure hunts without to much time and effort. Skalisty is by far the hardest so it need to match the loot for the time it takes. As for the other items there such as weapons i think those are pretty much on point in my opinion.
 
Likes: eah

George Hamnond

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
187
104
#10
If hotwires start spawning at hippie and un i suggest making it alot harder to complete as it is now you can complete it in under 5 minutes. People also log out at these places to get a balota spawn. Also increase the radius where people are allowed to log out at Hippie Prison as you can get loot before ai's start responding.
 

Goose

Epoch Admin
Admin
Developer
Jul 30, 2019
550
361
#11
@eah Ive already agreed with most of your points, they will be something we will discuss internally.

@george hamnond - your post was merged here, so I will continue here
Ive pulled apart your original post, and I have some points I need to clear up:

"Rework Skalisty Loot" - Unath is on this I believe.

"Removing object does not work when placed down in the same session" - does this happen with all built objects? Ive noticed you cant gear on tents until relog (an epoch-mod-wide issue, ive noticed it on other servers too), this might be a related issue.

"Prices need to be redone for most armed vehicles as the balance is completely off. Same goes for storage prices." - We can discuss the vehicle prices internally, however my idea for the store price would be something like 25% of the buy price of the vehicle (or perhaps you can suggest a more suitable percentage)?

"Prevent logging out at skalisty with gear." I got an idea for this,will also add it for Hippy and UN

"Fix ai path for convoy" - I can take a look at this, although im really not sure on the entire system

"Remove object in ai path at skalisty" - Could you send me a screenshot of this object please so I know what to re/move

"Add back rubie spawn, teleport and HC to dev server so people can test things and give feedback." - will leave this to the big boys

"Add a script to prevent storage sheds and simular object being placed inside the ground" - I got an idea for this one, how does forcing the object out of the ground sound? (IE Setting the height value to 0, so the object *should* be fully put of the ground)

"Change tank dealer layout to prevent camping from long range." - how does everyone feel about this one? IMO im fine the way it is, its all part of the risk right?

"Bases don't load..." - perhaps Merlijn changed the performance script? (and so needs to be changed back or fixed?)

"Pressing esc while on a boat ejects you" - ahh i've seen this on other vehicles before.. Not sure where to start with that.. can sure take a look though

I am very bored during this lockdown and just need something to do, figured I would try and help out with some bugs on Genesis and take the heat off of Merlijn ;)

Regards, Goose
 

George Hamnond

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
187
104
#12
Removing object seems to not work at all during same session but i do think safes and mg nests work. Haven't tried everything but this worked fine before.

Storage prices should not be 25% in my opinion but should be balanced towards how effective it is. Air vehicles for example get alot more done then ground vehicles. Can also focus on making vehicles with thermals or guided missiles more expensive as the overpower most vehicles (linebacker, bmp's ,bradley's, avenger, btr90 have guided missiles) and mi171 (rockets) have such a impact with the firepower they have it should be realy expensive. Now this might just be a personal one but the striker mc need to be reduced to perhaps 10bc? (it's 50 now). Sure this one has alot of power since it can kill from realy far but how it is now nobody uses it and was mainly used to bomb bases anyway. Using the mc would still make you a big target and it's easy to kill when found.

Ojects in ai paths: Mainly the container at the entrance and the h barriers in the middle. The rocks and warfare structures do allow ai's to get into it or in some cases walk through it.

The script you suggest for preventing object below 0 should get the job done.

For tank dealer this is not a issue honestly but it can be easily camped and might be annoying for new players when they get their first one.

I'm also very bored during lockdown... Thanks for taking of the heat it's alot to do.
 

Mr. Nice Guy

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
132
65
#13
I see a lot of people asking for more hotwires, but in im opinion, raiding shouldn't be something that can be done within a restart because you got like 15 in 3 hours. People work hard for their loot, and that many hotwires won't only hurt big groups, but esp smaller ones I feel like.
That new guy killed you once? Let's just hotwire his totally new base with 2 doors and a safe.
I havnet played much since patch, so i dont know how good/bad it is atm, but I think to many hotwires until the door unlocking item is implementied is bad.
 

Mr. Nice Guy

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
132
65
#15
Raiding shouldn't be easy if you ask me, give them from hard content only. Like lucky strike / jet mission / skalistiy. Don't add them to the UN outpost, to easy to do.
 
Aug 30, 2018
170
74
#16
Making bigger storage prices for vehicles i dont its going to help...same what happend with virtual garage storage time...didnt change anything in game it was bad change we all expected a lot more from it and it didnt worked out as planed...if you make bigger prices people will still use vehicles normaly...i used to spam MC like crazy i can still do it dont even have to look price...

About raiding...when i think about it Nice guy have point it needs to be hard...remove it from tresure or limit it to 1 with 10% of spawning...let skalisty be all the fun...
 
Nov 7, 2018
56
37
#17
Well this hotwire discussion is going in the wrong direction now - the main problem of the hotwires was because hotwiring doors got implemented. But Unath already clarified this point with saying that they´re working on a item that will be used to open doors. When this item gets implemented there is no need for these many hotwires, but I still think that skalisty should spawn more kits than all red missions combined in 1 restart - and that around 5 hotwires would not be unbalanced considering the work you will have to put into getting skalisty loot - specially when several groups will be going there.

I still think UN/hippie should spawn a couple - just because PvP around these areas on restart would be lots of fun. At this point there is no real "PvP-zones" that you can go for after restart, which is abit sad in my opinion.
 

Merlijn

Retired Owner
Retired
Apr 28, 2018
628
344
#18
Making bigger storage prices for vehicles i dont its going to help...same what happend with virtual garage storage time...didnt change anything in game it was bad change we all expected a lot more from it and it didnt worked out as planed...if you make bigger prices people will still use vehicles normaly...i used to spam MC like crazy i can still do it dont even have to look price...

About raiding...when i think about it Nice guy have point it needs to be hard...remove it from tresure or limit it to 1 with 10% of spawning...let skalisty be all the fun...
The storage time on the virtual garage works very nicely, I have seen a very nice shift in when people take certain vehicles out now.
I don't really now what you were expecting as the feature is not meant to be adding things for the gameplay.
 
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George Hamnond

Well-Known User
May 11, 2018
187
104
#19
Increasing store price will make players think twice about using a big vehicle. Unlike storage cooldown a storage price cannot be worked around be sitting afk in a safezone. This can also make it worth destroying the vehicle as the player will probly have the storage money on him for the people to loot.
 
Aug 30, 2018
170
74
#20
good luck killing my wildcat/mi171/warrior when i 1 tap your lav or btr90 and just watch movie for 20 minuts...or just use alt acc to sit in safezone for me...and a lot of having group so they will just give us money to store if needed... not going to cary it around even when i take it out ...